After pressure was brought to bear by the US on extraditing Christopher ‘Dudus’ Coke and with the disclosure on his role in the related Manatt
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5 Responses to “After Tivoli – A Different Take”
Oliver Hunter
Mr. Dawes – you seem to accept everything from the security forces as gospel. On the matter of phones being confiscated, this was something just thrown out there without any evidence whatsoever.
And ironically while they made this claim they were at the same time advising them where to call to give information – go figure.
I was personally in touch with people during the ordeal via said cell phone – so I know the claim is rubbish.
It would seem that there is something in our psyche that if we do not have a bloodbath somehow we are not happy.
How has the country benefited from the massacre brought on by the security forces’ grand adventure?
Do you feel safer now that “dem shot up sum a dem people from dung a Tivoli”?
The sooner we lean towards intelligent problem solving methods and step back from the “Saul has killed his thousands, but David has killed his tens of thousands” approach the better we will be.
Oliver Hunter
Regarding the criticism of human rights organisations , that they should focus on violations by criminals/terrorists.
The state and its agencies are identifiable the criminals are not.
The state is bound by laws, the criminals are not
If the state wants to be the equal of criminals in lawlessness, then thats a recipe for disaster
Trevor Dawes
That the J’can security forces, particularly the JCF, have a sorry reputation for abuses and extra-judicial killings I am not questioning. That they, or rogue elements within the security forces, in all likelihood, engaged in abuses and extra-judicial killings in TG I’m not questioning. However, to belittle the point that folks in TG who might have considered leaving before what went down happened and were prevented from doing so by goons within TG is disingenuous. I don’t care if these goons are nameless. When folks are given fair warning of an impending disaster and are then forcibly prevented (on the order of death?) from taking measures to protect themselves that is a human rights violation. Folks like Amnesty Int’l and Americas Watch have criticized both the Colombian gov’t and the FARC for human rights violations and the last time I checked, the FARC was not a gov’t entity. In fact, the FARC is listed as a terrorist organization by both the US and the EU. Amnesty Int’l has also criticized non-government terrorist groups in the Middle East as well as the Israeli gov’t for human rights abuses.
Trevor Dawes
Mr. Hunter, everyone now knows that Mr. Coke’s outfit is the Shower Posse so to plead ignorance in this instance is a rather specious argument to make. That they and their sympathizers would forcibly prevent decent folks in TG from leaving or having any means of contact with loved ones from outside TG is a human rights violation. When one’s right to freely speak/express an opinion and to move about freely and safely are forcibly curbed/curtailed without a legitimate reason by any party in any country that is a human rights violation. That Ja. has had lousy governments and governance over these many years goes without saying but to imply that it’s only the state that has infringed upon and/or otherwise violated people’s human rights is a bogus argument to make. I fail to see where it’s asking too much of folks like the JFJ to excoriate these folks for putting good folks in harm’s way by their deliberately irresponsible actions.
I’ll feel safer in Ja. when you have a better gov’t that will more ably and effectively address the issues that bedevil it. The same way I have never bought into the notion that if Reneto Adams was still in the JCF crime would be less is the same way what happened in TG won’t really solve anything if a comprehensive anti-crime strategy and social intervention are not put in place to address crime and its (prospective) perpetrators. When combined with enforcement and implementation of strong anti-corruption measures in/by gov’t and the wider society then and only then will I start to feel some sense of safety.
Oliver Hunter
Mr. Dawes – There is no evidence that people were prevented from having any contact by phone with their loved ones outside of TG.
I spoke to persons during the ordeal. The media spoke to persons during the ordeal. The claim is provably false.
5 Responses to “After Tivoli – A Different Take”
Mr. Dawes – you seem to accept everything from the security forces as gospel. On the matter of phones being confiscated, this was something just thrown out there without any evidence whatsoever.
And ironically while they made this claim they were at the same time advising them where to call to give information – go figure.
I was personally in touch with people during the ordeal via said cell phone – so I know the claim is rubbish.
It would seem that there is something in our psyche that if we do not have a bloodbath somehow we are not happy.
How has the country benefited from the massacre brought on by the security forces’ grand adventure?
Do you feel safer now that “dem shot up sum a dem people from dung a Tivoli”?
The sooner we lean towards intelligent problem solving methods and step back from the “Saul has killed his thousands, but David has killed his tens of thousands” approach the better we will be.
Regarding the criticism of human rights organisations , that they should focus on violations by criminals/terrorists.
The state and its agencies are identifiable the criminals are not.
The state is bound by laws, the criminals are not
If the state wants to be the equal of criminals in lawlessness, then thats a recipe for disaster
That the J’can security forces, particularly the JCF, have a sorry reputation for abuses and extra-judicial killings I am not questioning. That they, or rogue elements within the security forces, in all likelihood, engaged in abuses and extra-judicial killings in TG I’m not questioning. However, to belittle the point that folks in TG who might have considered leaving before what went down happened and were prevented from doing so by goons within TG is disingenuous. I don’t care if these goons are nameless. When folks are given fair warning of an impending disaster and are then forcibly prevented (on the order of death?) from taking measures to protect themselves that is a human rights violation. Folks like Amnesty Int’l and Americas Watch have criticized both the Colombian gov’t and the FARC for human rights violations and the last time I checked, the FARC was not a gov’t entity. In fact, the FARC is listed as a terrorist organization by both the US and the EU. Amnesty Int’l has also criticized non-government terrorist groups in the Middle East as well as the Israeli gov’t for human rights abuses.
Mr. Hunter, everyone now knows that Mr. Coke’s outfit is the Shower Posse so to plead ignorance in this instance is a rather specious argument to make. That they and their sympathizers would forcibly prevent decent folks in TG from leaving or having any means of contact with loved ones from outside TG is a human rights violation. When one’s right to freely speak/express an opinion and to move about freely and safely are forcibly curbed/curtailed without a legitimate reason by any party in any country that is a human rights violation. That Ja. has had lousy governments and governance over these many years goes without saying but to imply that it’s only the state that has infringed upon and/or otherwise violated people’s human rights is a bogus argument to make. I fail to see where it’s asking too much of folks like the JFJ to excoriate these folks for putting good folks in harm’s way by their deliberately irresponsible actions.
I’ll feel safer in Ja. when you have a better gov’t that will more ably and effectively address the issues that bedevil it. The same way I have never bought into the notion that if Reneto Adams was still in the JCF crime would be less is the same way what happened in TG won’t really solve anything if a comprehensive anti-crime strategy and social intervention are not put in place to address crime and its (prospective) perpetrators. When combined with enforcement and implementation of strong anti-corruption measures in/by gov’t and the wider society then and only then will I start to feel some sense of safety.
Mr. Dawes – There is no evidence that people were prevented from having any contact by phone with their loved ones outside of TG.
I spoke to persons during the ordeal. The media spoke to persons during the ordeal. The claim is provably false.